heidelberg "linocolor" program www.linocolor.com asignee: Dr. -Ing. Rudolf Hell GmbH, Germany 5787193 5719956 5412491 5283671 density toronto image works: someone in digital 703-1999 speak to "tim" = head of digital in the prepress industry converting in photoshop is a last ditch. across the street from toronto image works: imaging excellence does cmyk scanning=599-2695 linocolour from hidelberg. runs on mac. those colours are out of the boundaries. paul breneck image works assoc 495 1616: "tiff loses color info". cannot get everything from photoshop. can get sat. but not colour fidelity. can do own custom colour sep table. we've been working one for doing that specifically. taking the image and changing color sep table to maintain sat. but allow for hue shifts. we knew this was coming because we work with video people and they use rgb as well. we have done some developmental work on it. K=1-max(R,G,B) C=(1-R-K)/(1-K) M=(1-G-K)/(1-K) Y=(1-B-K)/(1-K) http://mpa.cat.cbpf.br/color_faq.html http://wearcam.org/color_faq.html On printer devices, a component of black is added to the CMY, and the second color space is then called CMYK (Cyan-Magenta-Yellow-blacK). This component is actually used because cyan, magenta, and yellow set up to the maximum should produce a black color. (The RGB components of the white are completly substracted from the CMY components.) But the resulting color isn't physically a 'true' black. The transforms from CMY to CMYK (and vice versa) are given as shown below: CMY -> CMYK | CMYK -> CMY Black=minimum(Cyan,Magenta,Yellow) | Cyan=minimum(1,Cyan*(1-Black)+Black) Cyan=(Cyan-Black)/(1-Black) | Magenta=minimum(1,Magenta*(1-Black)+Black) Magenta=(Magenta-Black)/(1-Black) | Yellow=minimum(1,Yellow*(1-Black)+Black) Yellow=(Yellow-Black)/(1-Black) | Note, these differ to the descriptions often given, for example in Adobe Postscript. For more information see FIELD in section 6. This is because Adobe doesn't choose to use the most recent equations. (I don't know why!) RGB -> CMYK | CMYK -> RGB Black=minimum(1-Red,1-Green,1-Blue) | Red=1-minimum(1,Cyan*(1-Black)+Black) Cyan=(1-Red-Black)/(1-Black) | Green=1-minimum(1,Magenta*(1-Black)+Black) Magenta=(1-Green-Black)/(1-Black) | Blue=1-minimum(1,Yellow*(1-Black)+Black) Yellow=(1-Blue-Black)/(1-Black) | Of course, I assume that C, M, Y, K, R, G, and B have a range of [0;1]. kevin: where to get postcards printed? who does good black background? how to generate cmyk file with good black background? preview print? Sparkman Kevin Photography:Kevin Sparkman 221 Sterling Rd Toronto 416 278 1401 still there? or new addr? sparkman: renforth dr. 621 2996 home number one of kevin's assistants saw you. happened to see me... king and dufferin; 535 7869 "boomerang" (business) cell number 574 1610 first minute free incoming. bell mobility. photographers use only macintoshes. macintosh set up for graphic imaging. the new macintoshes hold a gigabyte. UMACS S900, mac clone dual processor. macintosh revoked the licenses of clones. never licensed the operating system. daystar made the biggest one, quad processor 500MHz. the "macintosh 9600/300" macintosh dual 604E 300MHz 1G ram. the "macintosh 9600/350" macintosh dual 604E 300MHz 1G ram. $5000 US with 64M RAM, 4G HD; used to take 768meg 2years ago, now 1G? 50meg: 4by5in at 1000dpi; colorgenix has drum scanner. $40 or $50 to output. 8 by 10 is $120??? can do 4up. we give them the digital file; we do the page layout; hired someone quark Xpress. CMYK. Stack an extra cyan plate on the black to make it darker to get a pure black. otherwise 4 color gives milky black. a car brochure or limited edition print, they run a 5th color cyan to duplicate the black plate. my scanner is 3.0. good ones are 3.8 $200 scanners 2.0, mine's $1000 agfa studiostar 30bit and is 3.0 drum scanners are 3.8. post cards: AD FACTOR on queen west. $359 you get 4 color front, black back go4color is no good. photographic prints are not received well. it's not a real commercial way. students do that. the big pro guys spend on 4 color brochure. art directors seem to appreciate cibachromes. black and white prints work; 8 by 10 inch fiber-based prints. ad factor gives a proof. CMOS chips are the next wave; cheaper than CCD but ultimately going to be better digital cibachrome "light jet" film recorder. epson photo printer. 6 inks, light cyan and light magenta. photographic quality. 8.5 by 11 prints $600. operating cost $2/page. dotty ink jet quality. kodak DC120. majestic has banding.... tektronix makes expensive die sub printers. majestic is xerox. xerox majestic with fiery rip. if you want it to look digital to show you're a digital guy, versus mainstream live picture is now $299. toronto imageworks, colorgenics, bgm (expensive) annie (adfactor); 531-7907; read disk? friday delivery date? setting up your file. either bring saved CMYK instead of RGB, 300dpi at 18 by 24, typesetting to get the fonts out clearly, celia's handling it typsetting for $40 if you can provide the image in the other format. colour correction to transfer and size reduction another $40 = $80 total. you created it in RGB. the typesetting very close to the edge, problem when printed. need to retypeset it. adjust the colours but nothing to adjust it to. big change in RGB to CMYK. ... jan4th back, or jan6th adfactor: who's printer; expert in rgb to cmyk theorem: gamma correcting an image is equivalent to gamma correcting q in the Stockham sense, e.g. photoquantigraphically in the log domain. theorem: gainbias correcting an image is equivalent to gainbias correcting Q in the Stockham sense (e.g. log-photoquantigraphically in the log domain). http://www.yorku.ca/teachtec/archive/summer96/scanning/mode.htm CMYK has a larger colour range, yet is inferior at reproducing blues compared to RGB. Hint: Work on an image in RGB, saving it as CMYK when finished. Then touch up the CMYK image. browne of vancouver: 604-685-8545: our lead expert is derek seaton RGB to CMYK. the generalization to cmyk, tends to neutralize things a little bit. our printing takes care of financial printing only. bowne of toronto they have commercial printing, commercial div. bowne of toronto=416.449-6400: put you to our downtown office, craig bruce, one of our sales reps will call you back. martin niece is our director of technical services. manufacturing facility: we're competitive with MIL and with AJ arthurs jones, but not mom and pop shops http://www.labsonline.com/nec1.html Tommy Taylor, NEC's director of color 615.367-9110 Tommy Taylor=615 365 2061 new york office: 212/581-6961; we work CMYK at 254dpi or 304.8dpi magazine covers we do a big line of magazine covers. cosmopolitan, popular photography. we use macintosh photoshop to convert to cmyk, that's top of line software. we do all of our own scanning. you;ll need a touch plate if you want that saturated look. translation makes it a greyish blue; if you want that real vibrant saturated look, it's like a 5th or 6th printer: 4 colour process, plus pantone colour. pantone that simulates the colour you want to go to. that 5th colour comes over top. a lot of the annual reports are done that way. we do on cosmoplitan cover. e.g. flourescent blue. could use an actual flourescent colour. this process colour is way off, cover it up 40% we'd use a max dot 40 over that entire shot, change to grayscale and bring back on top at 40%. create plate through photoshop. we have equipment here that uses 7 or 8 channels; our film can be output from 7 or 8 channels. our photoshop professionals. more increase in costs with touch plates. blue is hard to reproduce, can add a gloss over top of that. we have photographers who output their print and then we scan in cmyk. 75% of our work is scanned in on the scanners we have here. we need hard copy to see what comparison should be. joe will give a quote. if color monitor calibrated you should be able to see it in photoshop cmyk to see what you're going to get. any adjustments needs to be done in photoshop, you have enough tools there to do anything that needs to be done, it's the only place to do any altering supervisor of stripping area might be able to help you there, doug bailey steve forest: BMG: 947-1325 they specialize putting images to disk gary: loss of saturation inherent with process. talk to printer; best printers: herzig sommerville adfactor is a postcard shop specialize small runs. arthur jones lithography bowne big run is 200-400 for photos rolls 8in 5in 11in 16by20, neightbourhood of 400, $588 a print. 8by10, $1.31 each for 400 anywhere from 1 to 1000 is reasonable. RGB file. i'm writing a 4 by 5 neg from your file. mac or pc. tiff file. we'll create neg from file, and then print from the neg. neg writes 1000dpi in rgb. 40-45 meg file. smaller than 4by5 e.g. 3.5 by 4.5 inch. 4500 pixels across. need about 4 or 5 days. LUTs in phothshop assume a mid-key image. RGBs that have a flourescing effect: CMYK falls down in the greens, some reds, and orange gamut in RGB is bigger than CMYK in general. if you want to stay out on the fringes of the gamut... get a transparency made, color tranny has larger gamut. if we can get that tranny and use it as a base, we can punch up the colours. for high end we use a davinci machine not photoshop, we use c-lab. most image setters only rep. 24bit davinci made by linotype hell: postscript environment. even though it's a high end it still falls into the mainstream. send out for tranny made: rbg 24bit drum scanner, we'd scan 150line reproductino we scan 2 pixels per dot. linotype hell makes the scanner called colorscan 3000 all our presses are 40inch presses, 25by38 with colorbars. we have full prepress and presses in house and full finishing as well. 8 by 10 tranny would be better, or a color negative. Heidelberg www.linotype-hell.com 1-800-437-7388; fax 1800-841-7765 Telesales representative: 1-888-472-9655 kevin: scitex crossfield drum scans specify you want in cmyk way easier to scan a tranny than a neg. some film recorders want 3.5 by 4.5 inch at ____ dpi; they'll resize and degrade; we've had trouble with output of film; pay $70 to $100 for a 4by5; get it done on a fire1000 machine or light jet. colorgenics did good ones. avoid bgm because they have old kodak lumiere system. CMYK scan $75 (desktop scanner range of 3.6) to $200 (million dollar hell scanner with 4.0 range). galbraith photo lab my studio has inconsistent quality. photoshop's conversion isn't as good as some of the other ones. scitex crossfield is the distrib or manufact of scitex. estabalish a program in imaging at u.toronto... carey color inc. 775 S. Progress Dr. Medina, OH 44256 Tel: 330-725-5637 Fax:330-725-2546 Contact Carey Color directly using email. Visit our Contact Page to see other ways of connecting with us. We also have sister plants located in Indianpolis and Cinncinnati to serve you better. Contact us for details. "ed" is our color expert: we use photoshop to do all our conversions, that's all i've ever used to go from rgb to cmyk. photoshop is trying to be realistic. one fixit workaround is that once it's converted to cmyk you can call up curves and take your black highlight and scoop some of it out, take 10 or 15% black out of the highlight. cmyk dumps black, at the cursor on zero and slide it, make zero input equal -10 output. that's the software trying to alert designer the colours are not reproducible. in cmyk reads 0 to 100 instad of 0.255 in photoshop go under image adjust hue saturation and play around with satuartion slider it will do same thing take black off top. cleans out black dirtying it up. people talk about scanning in cmyk but there's no such thing. when we do drum scans, it's rgb and computer generates the black. we have a hell and a screen, some people send in chromes to get scanned. cmyk: pin registration camera not good enough, film shrinks photoshop lies less than any other program. photoshop shows you what your going to get: does a good job of estimating what you're going to get. a program called "litho" talk to mark braun at our digital photography studio. Graphic Arts Group North America North America Scitex America Corp. (Headquarters) Eight Oak Park Drive Bedford, MA 01730 USA Phone: (781) 275-5150 Fax: (781) 275-3430 source Scitex 800-929-9209 sales... ask for scanner technician press can't convert it, not going to work. the press can't even do the proper cmyk. don't do the conversion on the press, won't work well. tranny hi res scane substitute the colours by hand. ... hexachrome but a lot of money: uses 6 colours instead of 4. increasees gamut. different than touchplates... ... here we work from the end. we know what it's supposed to look like when printed. we take into account dotgain on each colour. we look at 5 or 6 points along the dotgain instead of just the midpoint. we work with top end people. addfactor gang runs. brochure for a car versus std. brochure. finnesse the printing end as well as the front end. hexachrome will increase the gamut immediately. simpler solution in one sense. tiff is a lousy file format for file colour. i would use an eps, encapsulated postscript. the tiff algorithm decides which colour info is important and what is not. separate tiff files each colour. we're a design agency but we own shifts at various printers; own hours. sizes 40inch, 60inch, we look at doing it at higher line screens to get better def. or res. 3600 instead of 2400 add factor is running a 25 inch press, sheet is 19x25 a 19x25 press is not a good press. banding: roller marks. paul brenek, one of 2 owners; other is jane gilbert does printing. i tend to more of the graphics, big presses. we get stuff for robin hood, cerial companies. send us files, we do film. sometimes we get it as rgb or cmyk. sometimes part rgb and part cmyk. just photoshop, illustrator, and quark. we work back from the press. in previous duracell, spot colour, replaced. the other times we've manually selectd a colour and replaced. we run press proofs. we work in LAB colour model. we bring into quark to ouutput the film from quark. each colour is made up of linescreen. lines per inch. you can adjust the angle of the lines. if special screen angles. photoshop gives ok view of what it's going to look like on the press. i know by numbers what i need to do to get a rich looking black on press. yellow is usually the worst channel. dusting patents, then lightspace+wyckoff paper to T-IP convert to LAB space first toronto image works: someone in digital 703-1999 speak to "tim" = head of digital in the prepress industry converting in photoshop is a last ditch. imaging excellence does cmyk scanning=599-2695 linocolour from hidelberg. runs on mac. those colours are out of the boundaries.